Is it time to scrap HMS QUEEN ELIZABETH? Why the RN should consider scrapping the Carrier force.


In an interview with the Sunday Times today, the Secretary of State for Defence, Ben Wallace MP raised concerns about the future ability of the British Armed Forces to operate alongside American allies, noting that this cannot be taken for granted and that it would be essential to look at improving British sovereign capabilities. This would include better ISTAR and other capabilities that the UK benefits from when working as a partner alongside the US.

In the first article on this subject today, Humphrey explored what this could mean particularly for the British Army. The key challenge in this debate is that while developing national sovereign capabilities may sound appealing, it comes at a significant price and could require scaling back of ambitions.

For instance, if the assumption is that the UK is going to operate alone, or without direct US support, does this mean that it continues to make political and policy sense to want to have the ability to deploy a ground-based division globally? What are the benefits and gains of doing so relative to the potential costs? Similarly, when Defence is potentially looking at a £15bn shortfall, what is sacrificed to pay for this capability?

The purpose of this article is to even the balance a little, play devils advocate and hopefully fend off the views of some that the original article was a pro navy piece intended to attack the Army, and other such nonsense. Instead it wants to focus on what could an approach mean for the Royal Navy?


Image by Ministry of Defence; © Crown copyright



The starting point for this is the debate around how the UK engages with the world. The original article noted that the UK is a maritime economy dependent on global trade for prosperity. For years the view has been that the best way for the Royal Navy to protect this is around a forward presence, global reach and trying to ensure that UK national interests can be protected.

But there is an alternative perspective that could be credibly considered. The UK could easily consider that in the light of its withdrawal from the EU, and wider concerns about the stability of NATO that the SDSR offers an opportunity to strengthen European security credentials and reassure NATO partners of its ongoing steadfast commitment to the Alliance – particularly in the Baltic states where there is real concern around the potential for Russian mischief.

In those circumstances an equally strong case could be made for the British Army to become the key defence priority, and for investment to flow into ensuring that the ability to deploy and sustain forces in Eastern Europe, operating as a truly sovereign force and able to work as part of NATO makes a lot of sense. In these circumstances there is a clear argument to be made for bolstering the Army, enhancing its logistical and strike capability and making it able to serve as a clear sign of British commitment to European security.

This shift would not be the first time this decision has been taken – arguably the 1981 Defence Review took a very similar posture, choosing to focus resources on the ability of the British Army of the Rhine (BAOR) to fight and survive, and enhance the forces assigned to it. At the same time, the roles of the Royal Navy and RAF were more clearly intended to be as both supporting organisations to ensure the Army had air support and sea control of the Atlantic against submarines to permit reinforcements from North America. This could perhaps be summed up as a ‘NATO / Fortress Britain’ approach.

The 1981 Defence Review still causes shudders of involuntary horror to emit from many Naval Officers who remember it for the loss of the LPDs and the Carrier force, downgrading of the Royal Marines as well as cuts to the front line fleet (to a force of some 50 ships) and the loss of the ENDURANCE.

Yet despite this, it remains a strikingly well-argued paper in terms of prioritising resources against the threat, and is perhaps remarkably prescient for the threats and challenges we face today.
In identifying that the role of the Royal Navy was to provide ASW and focusing resources away from the highly expensive Type 22 and into the more austere Type 23, we see a repeat of the Type 26 vs Type 31 arguments that remain valid now. But, more widely we see a sense of Government not being afraid to ruthlessly concentrate resource on the core missions at hand – ASW and not global deployments to protect wider interests.


In the likely highly resource constrained SDSR that the UK is about to do, very similar arguments could be made – especially in light of SofS’s comments. It is easy to look at the modern Royal Navy and ask whether if the decision is taken to refocus resources to NATO and European security, the Carriers, the LPDs and the Escort fleet continue to be relevant to the key threats we face.
You could make a strong argument that of the significant or existential threats to the UK where warfighting assets are needed, either to deter or be ready for use, then these are built around the need to protect Europe from external aggression.

There is a clear threat to the security of both the Baltic states and Scandinavian nations from an aggressive and resurgent Russia. This calls for strong land-based forces able to reinforce rapidly the continent, coupled with effective airpower assets able to support both air defence and strike operations. It also requires the ability to work as part of a residual NATO alliance, able to lead and command multi-national operations and bring together military land and air forces from multiple nations in an effective manner.

To deliver this as a sovereign capability would be expensive – it requires both investment in new national capabilities such as imagery and C2 functions, coupled with the recapitalisation of significant swathes of the British Army armoured and artillery force – long deferred decisions on replacements or refits need to be taken soon, particularly for the AS90 and Challenger 2 force, and these come at a price.

For the Royal Navy the question would be if the emphasis is to support national operations in Europe, and to reduce spending internally to free up funds then what has to give and what could change?  The 1981 Defence White Paper is a good starting point to help shape this argument as the threats are so similar – a resurgent Russian threat coupled with the need to replace Trident.

In operational terms the RN could credibly look to step away from the ‘high end’ focus on expeditionary warfare and instead refocus its efforts on the littoral and operations far closer to home to develop a force that works to support the Army.

To that end you again could make a very compelling case to dispose of both of the LPDs – these complex ships are intended to command amphibious assaults, yet are manpower intensive and are perhaps anachronisms at a time when the Royal Marines are moving away from the direct amphibious assault role. The removal of the LPD capability would free up a lot of naval manpower and remove the need to refit BULWARK soon ahead of a planned return to service.

If the Royal Marines were to retain some focus on providing a discrete ‘strike’ capability via the Littoral Strike Ship, then this would probably suffice for the sort of small raids that would occur  e.g. limited and highly discrete operations involving small numbers of troops, and not large-scale beach landings.


In a similar vein, there is a strong case to be made to step away from carrier aviation completely. The Carrier project has now delivered both vessels into service, and at its most brutally cynical, one could argue that they have fulfilled their role of keeping the British shipbuilding industry intact and alive.

With both ships now in service but without the full airwings in place, this is the most effective time to scrap them and reap significant return on their sales to a third party. With the concept proven, but very few ‘miles on the clock’ there would be a wealth of countries keen to bring both ships into their navies – which when coupled with the onwards work for refitting the ships for foreign service, this could be a real boon for the UK shipbuilding and repair industry.

The Royal Navy could well step away from both ships and actually reap huge operational and structural benefits. There is no doubt that while they are magnificent vessels, they are also a manpower drain on the Naval Service as a whole, requiring well over 1500 people (or some 10% of the general service headcount) to crew.

Scrapping both carriers would free up wider changes by significantly reducing the requirements for escort ships, as there would not be a need to generate the associated escort carrier strike groups (potentially reducing by 4-8 ships the numbers of escorts needed in the RN force).

In terms of wider programming, now would represent the best time to scrap them, before Croswnest is fully in service, or the F35 force is built up, as well as before the FSS contract (intended to provide two-three large supply ships for stores to support carrier operations) is placed. The longer term savings would be enormous and potentially significant enough to buy out a potentially large amount of the short term funding ‘black hole’ and potentially offer space to fund the new capabilities needed to support the Army.

This may sound revolutionary, but again there is precedent here. The RN moved to sell HMS INVINCIBLE, then brand new as part of the 1981 Defence Review, to Australia. If we are moving to an assumption that the UK may need to act in isolation, then it is also entirely reasonable to ask if carrier groups are still relevant in that vision?

The role of the Carrier Strike Group is as much to project power in a wider coalition force, so operating with partners like the USN or other allies, and embarking foreign aircraft too. If we are now in a space where US partnership cannot be taken for granted, then there is a case that the carriers represent a capability we may not actually require for future operations.

Intended as the centre piece of coalition work, the change to the planning assumptions to ensure that enough credible escorts and aircraft that can work as part of the force in a crisis are available may make them practically unaffordable. At the moment the RN is intending to deploy two CSG’s, but is assuming that foreign allies will contribute in some way. If it had to go it alone, the cost of doing so could be eye-watering, and potentially make the force unaffordable for the long term.


The wider picture for the RN is that scrapping the LPD and Carrier forces as they currently exist also actively calls into question the justification for the retention of a large surface force of 19 high capability escort ships.

Already the RN has struggled with manpower for years and only 17 of the 19 hulls are actually active at any one time, with two held in nominal reserve. The Type 23s are also materially fragile in some cases, often having significantly exceeded their hulls intended to design life.

One of the reasons for the size of the escort force is to be able to provide enough ships to meet various contingent scenarios and ensure that the RN can meet the requirements placed on it in wartime. But, if you remove some of the prime reasons for those scenarios to be generated, you equally reduce the requirement to need as many ships.

While discussing specific ship hull numbers is a dangerous slippery slope into the world of fantasy fleets, it is reasonable to say that if the RN took the decision to delete the Carrier and LPD forces, then it could also accrue significant savings by paying off a not inconsiderable number of escort ships as surplus to requirements.

This would save money in the short term and also generate longer term savings by not needing to build like for like replacements. It would also free up a considerable amount of people to be redeployed elsewhere to close gapped billets and ease the burden on a very overstretched workforce.
There is a good argument to be made that it would be better for the RN to have 8-10 escort ships, fully crewed and with a ‘third watch’ system in play that would significantly increase their ability to be at sea and operationally available if needed, compared to the current force.

While these moves would herald the end of the Royal Navy as it is currently known, they also represent a very good opportunity to reconfigure it for the sort of local maritime constabulary tasks that it excels at. For example, some of the savings used could be reinvested in building additional simple offshore patrol vessels for both the military and wider maritime tapestry like Home Office and fishery protection agencies to increase the ability to monitor offshore. Other funds could be diverted into better investment in surveillance drones or aircraft to monitor UK waters and ensure their security if required.

From an operational perspective, the Royal Navy could refocus itself as a predominantly small ship navy intended to provide the ability to close and hold the Channel, support operations in the Baltic and perhaps retain a small number of ships to support wider international deployments.
The holding of the Channel would require forces intended to protect the area from mining, heralding renewed investment in the next generation of MCMV capability (most likely a land based force using alternative systems to find and destroy mines). The MCMV force would continue to be a credible bargaining tool for use in coalition scenarios, particularly in the Gulf where the UK is already de facto lead nation among coalition forces.



The wider challenge of the Baltic would call for a similar force to that seen during the 2019 Baltic Protector deployment, smaller ships able to visit local ports coupled with perhaps a slightly larger Type 31 style vessel able to operate against potential hostile forces. There may be a requirement too for an LSD to operate as both mother ship and residual mover of littoral forces around the coastline if needed.

One area to consider is what happens to the Submarine force and its role? It is to be assumed that regardless of what else happens in the SDSR, the decision to renew Trident will be taken as it is, at heart, an overwhelmingly political one. This in turn will drive the decision to retain some wider capability – for instance the P8 force, some ASW frigates and some form of SSN capability to protect this.


There is no credible or more cost effective way to remain a nuclear power without renewing Trident – there is no warhead and missile delivery system in service today that the UK could use, and as exhaustive studies have proven, both ground and air launched alternatives are too vulnerable to be credible as a ‘second strike’ capability. This therefore drives us to assume that Trident remains in service – and even if the relationship with the US is reconfigured, the USN is likely to push for a continued close relationship because they too are dependent on the UK support for much of the next generation of SSBN work to help safeguard their own Trident force.

This means that the UK is in the same place as it was in 1981, investing in new SSBNs and deciding what to do with the SSN force. The key medium-term question is whether the UK decides to call time on a Royal Navy SSN force and instead move to an AIP or other system instead and reconfigured itself as an SSK focused navy.

The key challenge here is whether as part of a defence policy optimised to support NATO, the UK see’s its role in wartime as that of conducting operations ‘up north’ or if it would prefer to invest in submarine operations in the Baltic to protect the flanks of UK forces based in the region. In those circumstances a return to conventional submarine operations may well be more credible option than nuclear, primarily due to the characteristics of the Baltic.

Much like the 1981 review brought the UPHOLDER class into existence, the 2020 review too could herald a path back towards conventional submarines. Such a move would in some ways help the UK return to the ability to operate in isolation, removing the dependency on other nations for nuclear co-operation, and also expand shipbuilding export opportunities as well.




The final role on global trade protection would call for retention of a small force of reasonable capability ships to fly the flag for soft power and work to promote UK exports and protect shipping.
In a totally ruthless world though it needs to be asked the extent to which the UK would want to be involved in protecting shipping in the Middle East or Far East? Given other European and Aisan economies are reliant on shipping too from this region, and given the way nations tend to respond when their interests are threatened – particularly with piracy in the Horn of Africa, perhaps the time has come to ask others to carry the burden more?

The UK could perhaps look to offer on an occasional basis an East of Suez deployer if required, but instead take the conscious decision that the role of the Royal Navy is primarily protection of the home base and not its more global interests.

While there may be tangible goodwill generated by a British carrier in the Asia Pacific region, a strong argument could be made that if the Royal Navy is no longer planning to operate or fight in the region, why does it need to visit it? In this case and scenario, the argument would be that UK soft power in the Asia Pacific region can just as easily be delivered by a combination of the FCO, DfID, Trade and the odd deployment than it can by a Carrier Strike Group visiting on an occasional group deployment.

From a soft power perspective too, there is a lot to be asked about the value of whether a flag waving deployment actually generates benefits in a world where the UK has reconfigured itself to be a predominantly European land power. The reality of making decisions to ‘go it alone’ as a planning assumption is that it cuts your horizons and aspirations to what is credible and survivable, unless you choose to have very deep pockets and a benevolent Treasury on your side.

The benefits to the Royal Navy and Defence of adopting these widespread changes would be considerable. At a pinch you could reduce headcount considerably while still solving gapping, thus saving huge amounts of money and freeing up headcount to be assigned to the RAF and Army.
It would help reduce risk in the shipbuilding programme by reducing the reliance on expensive and complicated designs with significant potential to go wrong, and instead focus on cheaper and simpler vessels aimed at lower intensity roles. Paraodoxically it could actually lead to real terms growth in the number of ships as sufficient funds may be available (and people too) to grow the force of OPVs to the point where the Royal Navy could be larger in hull terms than it is now.

Humphrey has no doubt that this piece, intended as a ‘devils advocate’ article is likely to generate enormous debate in some quarters by those who will see it as an attack on the Royal Navy. But, at its heart is a key point – namely that at its heart defence policy is about making difficult decisions and trade offs to try and balance out multiple different interests and equities.

In this case the view that the UK should be prepared to ‘go it alone’ represents a very different policy perspective to decades of previous planning assumptions. This in turn means having to take some real and very difficult decisions about what should be prioritised and how it should be funded.
In the case of the military, it is highly unlikely that enough money will be available to support both a global forward deployed, and a continental Europe approach. Nor will all three services benefit equally from funding, and they will have to cut their cloth accordingly.

The reality is that the British Government are on the cusp of having to make and take some extraordinarily difficult decisions that will have an impact that could last for years, if not decades. The move to assume that the UK must be ready to fight alone will probably force the MOD to scale back its aspirations for how and when it can deploy the armed forces, and the scenarios where they can be employed.

Alternatively, the MOD could consider genuinely radical suggestions, like the ones raised here, about an alternative approach that would turn on its head the established missions and structures that have existed for over 30 years and instead accept a considerable shrinking of horizons and ambitions to meet the goals placed on them.

There are no easy answers and the next few months are likely to see all manner of equally unpalatable views being looked at and considered. There is no certainty beyond the fact that every Service is likely to leak, and be the target of leaks, intended to influence and inform opinion makers views. The hope must be though that the outcome is a coherent defence and national security policy document, and not an uncomfortable mixture intended to try to appease everyone and not actually take the hard decisions that must be taken to ensure the Armed Forces remain relevant for the next 10 years.


Comments

  1. Interesting article. There are similarities between now and 1981, but there are differences. Firstly, Russia isn't the Soviet Union. In 1981 the USSR was the second largest economy in the world and could out produce all of NATO in aircraft , tanks, guns and ships. Russia has an Italian sized economy and struggles to produce anything, let alone in numbers. While we need to be alert to Russia and possible conflict in the Baltics, the UK together with the Baltic countries, Scandinavia and Poland, outnumber Russia. The Russian advantage is they are close, while we are far. But Russia's advantage is time bound. They are dominant until NATO forces mobilise, so they have to complete their move before that happens. Anything which slows them is a deterrent to taking the action in the first place. As a result of this we should consider the correct place to spend money is not in an armoured division but in 'home defence' for the Baltic states, to slow progress, inflict pain on aggressors and worsen the fighting capability of attackers until friendly forces turn up. There is a role for British thought and practical leadership on drones, containerised fires, long range anti tank missiles and ISTAR, together with coordinating good old fashioned total defence. What I don't see the need for is BAOR mk 2.

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  2. I agree the aircraft carriers are 2 huge white elephants. But I do think the Trident shouldn't be replaced as the UK could use the money for more conventional forces. I don't see Russian as much of threat as it really is a poor man playing at being a superpower.

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    1. Abandoning Trident (which is not going to happen) is unlikely to generate significant benefits for UK conventional forces. You cannot just trade one for the other as they perform different roles. The choice is between small conventional forces plus Trident or small conventional forces without Trident. As simple and as complicated as that.

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  3. It seems like the capability loss of the RN doesn't seem to equate positively with the capability gain of the Army. Long story short, doesn't seem like it's worth it.

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  4. To Fruitman and kiwi_male: Russia has numerous divisions and brigades whose sole real purpose is to fight a land war with NATO. The active duty component of the Ground Forces has around 3000 tanks (not counting reserve units) compared to the 112 Britain will have under Army 2020 Refine. Russian IFVs are heavily armed. Each Russian maneuver brigade or division might have about the same amount of self-propelled artillery as the entire British army. Russian artillery likely has access to tactical nuclear weapons when politically authorized. Russia imposes no restrictions on using cluster munitions. Russian anti-aircraft forces are widespread and some are cutting edge. Electronic warfare is standard. The Russian Ground Forces would seemingly wipe the floor with most NATO armies when fighting in Eastern Europe, the US heavy brigades (based in North America) perhaps excluded.

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    1. That's a bit of a superficial reading. To choose one metric, yes Russia has lots of tanks, but they're mainly T72s, in other words not the sort of thing you choose to go to war with against an enemy armed with modern anti tank missiles.

      Go through the list of equipment in a Russian division and it's the same 70's and 80's equipment with a make over. It's good enough to fight a 1980's opposition, but not a modern one.

      Below is a good summary of the state of play.
      https://www.csis.org/analysis/russian-military-reforms-georgia-syria

      If their cutting edge SAMs are so good, why do Israeli aircraft keep getting past it to attack targets deep in Syria, why is it unable to stop rebel attacks on Russian airbases using drones?

      You have to ask yourself, if their existing kit is so good, why are they spending so much to replace it? The Russians are just as familiar with the capabilities of NATO equipment as us, they know their existing kit isn't up to scratch in a fight, their challenge is replacing the vast numbers of historic pieces with modern, with an economy which is smaller than the UK's.

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    2. My guess is that a modern antitank round from a modern T-72 can penetrate a Challenger 2; exact details would be classified on both sides. The link you post mentions upgrades to the already quite numerous Russian artillery, itself mostly from the late 80s or early 90s, and new UAVs to target the artillery. I don't think NATO soldiers would be prepared for the volume of incoming fire if Putin was seeking war. Of European NATO countries, only Poland seems to preparing for a high intensity war with Russia

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    3. The Challenger turret frontal armour is protected against 125mm APFSDS, they aren't long enough. It's encountered export rounds in Gulf War 1 and 2 with the result no penetration.
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/125_mm_smoothbore_ammunition
      The artillery is a concern, but the Russian army has operated in an electronic warfare permissive environment, where there was no challenge from precision strike to their supply and they didn't have to use conscript units. All of that will have a material impact on performance. I do think we need to look at solutions, my preference is a containerised rockets based product, to restore/gain over match.

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  5. We and NATO have to have enough military power to deter Russian hegemony. Not an invasion per se but slow hegemony.

    As for our carriers and Trident.. so we are going to let France have both and we give them up? Really?

    I think Humphrey needs to do a piece on the efforts the Army is doing in making a mess out of its future structure. I mean, a half baked Ajax and a half baked boxer policy adds up to less than the sum of their parts.

    But we will fight nowwhere, on land or sea without air power.

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  6. As UK enters global market reducing reach looks unbalanced as a policy. 70% of the globe is water hard to see the navy having less relevence if for no other reason as self contained delivery system for men, weapons, supplies, logistics globally.

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  7. Until geography changes, the UK needs to be defended primarily on the seas and in the air. Surely the French and the Germans should be doing any fighting with the Russians on the European plain, not us, and would be more motivated to do so. Besides which I am always surprised that an army that suffered so much in Norway, Greece and on Crete should complain so much about getting air cover from the sea.

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  8. But the 1981 Nott review was not radically different from the seldom mentioned 1975 Mason review, at least as far as the RN is concerned. Basically cut the surface fleet, run down the amphibious capability and concentrate mainly on the NATO roles of ASW and MCM. Nott only intended to sell/scrap 1 out of 3 Invincibles, and I suspect the only reason the project was allowed to continue under the previous Labour government was the fact that they were primarily intended as ASW helicopter carriers so still regarded as valuable. In addition to this of course were economic/employment factors, which probably also saved the Batch 2 T22 frigates in the run-up to the 1979 general election.

    As for SDSR 2020, I doubt the carriers or SSNs will go given the amount that has been spent on them, how high profile they are and their centrality to the global role. Despite all the the 'pivotal moment' hype there is actually very little room for manoeuvre given that the upcoming T26 and T31 programmes are already well advanced. The LPDs probably will go in the next 5 years so the RN/RM will have to approach the amphibious capability differently in future. What else can be sacrificed? Maybe 2/3 older T23s withdrawn early and 2 T45s mothballed, taking us down to ~15 escorts? I cannot see the global role being abandoned and a u-turn is not going to be feasible now as the carriers and T45s are built, the Astute programme at the mid-point and T26 and T31 already signed up to.

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    1. The border for the Soviet Union then was East/West Germany. Now it's far to the east.
      Our need for a large armoured force is minimal, possibly zero.
      The army are riding 2 horses at the same time. We should have a quality wheeled component and give up on tracks. We should concentrate on Norway and the Baltics. Mobility. Mountain troops. Out land based force multipliers are the SAS, Marines, Paratroopers/Airborne, Specialist Light Infantry.
      Our enemies are terrorists.

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    2. I am primarily concerned with the Navy but agree we do not need much in the way of heavy armour. Indeed, the UK should focus primarily on the maritime domain I would say. However, no SDSR can be based upon the assumption that our enemies are terrorists. All potential future threats need to be taken into account, from state on state through hybrid and asymmetric to terrorism.

      In the case of the latter, there is relatively little that the military can do to effectively counter it. Romping around the desert in armoured vehicles chasing terrorists is, as we know to our cost, not going to achieve anything. Border security, internal security, intelligence and surveillance are the key, not the Army.

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  9. Sir Humphrey does so love to play devil's advocate! I think that to delete the carriers now would be a huge blow to the nation and to common sense for very limited gain. The airwing will need to be purchased anyway, for the most part. There's no doing a credible Fortress Europe without a variant of the F35, so it might was well be the B variant which can operate from land as well as from the carriers we've now got. If we plan to deter the Russians then the T26 is clearly required, as is the T31 for the ME and elsewhere. The idea that 19 surface combatants is suddenly a large force for an economy/EEZ of our size is I think ahistorical and a bit foolish. There is an argument for deleting the LPDs and refocusing the Royal but if that is done then retaining the ability to deliver sea control and air cover adjacent to our possessions and to our allies seems prudent, particularly if the Littoral Strike ships are bought. The Army needs considerable investment to be able to generate even a credible brigade for a near peer scenario, I just think that it would be madness to achieve this essential capbility by deleting others equally essential. If Britain loses the ability to act then others will act in our place and we may not like the outcomes. At a time when the government openly speaks of borrowing to improve infra being OK because rates are low, why is it that only defence, of all things, is now looking at another round of self-defeating and shortsighted cuts?

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  10. Lets not try and be too clever. As I see it our use to Nato/Europe, at least in the early stages of any conflict, is going to be defending the Moat, and this requirement will still be primary even after the initial shock. Western Europe will have all the initial capabilities to mount a major defensive land operation providing it has the will - likely to materialise as risk increases. It is not our job to try and buttress any perceived lack of will as a first resort.
    Defending the North Atlantic would require both 'efficient mobile air asset platforms' (short title QE Class) and submarines, potentially to counter not just Russia but also increasingly China who's string of pearls philosophy and northern submarine access (or even surface units if gobal warming accelerates) would directly threaten 'our seas' (forget travelling to the far east).
    One curiosity - if a/c are too much for the UK even set against the above responibility, who are these numerous other nations who'd love to get hold of them?
    Regards G Gordon

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  11. International maritime trade is a vital UK national interest, the Baltics are not. If America withdraws there will be no NATO, but the need to deter others globally remains, meaning the RN assumes its traditional role.

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    1. If the US withdraws, and it's a big if, NATO the organisation will be diminished, but the treaty doesn't stop being in effect in the other signatories. They will then have a decision on how to respond, which I would speculate would be to increase their resources on defence.

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  12. I'm sure the Chinese would be delighted if we did this. One less bastion of liberal democracy for them to have to overcome.

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  13. The 'have to fight alone' argument begs the question 'where?'. Deterring Russia is the only plausible threat scenario (and there are many- as I'm sure the author knows), that does not require the power projection capabilities that the author contemplates axing. The GDP of Russia is less than that of the 3 large European powers individually, so- even without the US- outmatching Russian capability collectively should not be too challenging if the political will is there in continental Europe to properly resource it. If the will isn't there, the UK cannot be expected to provide the required capability by itself. Either way- the argument that 'Russia' threats should be our main defence effort seems rather tenuous. Potential benefits to the economy have also been overlooked. I suspect the Defence Secretary's statements are intended to argue for a loosening of resource constraints, in the face of multiple growing threats (and I suspect the author knows this too, and has written this article with mischievous intent...)

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    1. It's a devil's advocate article. Sir H is just exploring possibilities and consequences. Agree re. the threat posed by Russia and the thinking of Mr Wallace.

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  14. Has an alien being taken over Sir H.
    Normally a staunch advocate on anything to do with the White Ensign, he seems to have been take over by some "Army Chappie".
    Even as Ex-Army, I see the need to expand the Navy for both Home and Overseas operations. When we leave the EU and regain control of our home waters, we will certainly need more River type boats to prevent illegal fishing etc close to home, but we also need to be able to fly the flag around the rest of the world, as well as provide support to our dependencies and commonwealth countries in the Caribbean

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    1. Sir H is not saying what he thinks should happen, he is exploring what could happen if a particular train of thought is taken to the extreme. It is intended as a tongue in cheek piece, we all know the carriers will not be scrapped.

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    2. It is a long tongue in cheek.

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  15. I suspect whoever bought the carriers would need a lot of enduring tech support to operate them (the Brazilian and Thai ships spend a hell of a lot of time tied up to the wall), which would vitiate quite a bit of the manpower saving, sorry, cut. France could probably make them work but do they want a second radically different ship that would need conversion to operate their aircraft...ha no.

    Another point on the 1981 review: what did happen to moving to "austere" or "sonar tug" Type 23? Like most little crappy ship projects (eg the Blackwoods/T14, the LCSs, arguably even the T21s or the much romanticised Flowers) it turned out to be complete pump, an unrealistic concept that would have let us down badly in war (and in fact did in the Falklands - look how badly the T21s suffered compared to the 22s, Leanders, and even ageing T12s).

    Even if we got away with it, the Blackwoods and Tribals didn't stay in service for much more than a decade while the "expensive" T12s gave us 30 years plus and the proper, real warships the T23 evolved are expected to beat that handily. Temporary ships are a terrible idea.

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