tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post7884874519684020211..comments2024-03-20T12:03:26.126+00:00Comments on Thin Pinstriped Line: No - the Royal Navy is not a global laughing stockSir Humphreyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08704774192275240783noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-80907738735985983782017-10-26T12:15:41.228+01:002017-10-26T12:15:41.228+01:00That’s very true, but it’s difficult to buy ahead ...That’s very true, but it’s difficult to buy ahead when the GBP is bouncing around like a yoyo; If Mrs May could just stop talking, just stop talking to the media about Brexit, the pound might not be so liquid and keep flowing in the wrong direction for the economies long term prospects!<br /><br />The trend in UK equipment procurement has been down ever since just before the Falklands war (42 warships deployed to recover lost property) <br /><br />The butcher’s bill for the Falklands was far more than it would have been / should have been, if the previous SDR had put more money into the defence budget. It’s arguable that the Falklands war would never have happened, if John Nott had not just previously announced that 6 warships were to be cut from the Navy - 1981.<br /><br />It would be wonderful to see the pound get above £1.40, Junker 88 is doing his very best to make it not so. London City is under attack from the white coat brigade in Frankfurt - againKeithSwarenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-31639534134825608752017-10-04T23:59:47.231+01:002017-10-04T23:59:47.231+01:00Both the Telegraph and this article are wrong. 19...Both the Telegraph and this article are wrong. 1945 is a bad example due to demobilisation.<br /><br />A better example would be 1956 Suez Crisis.<br /><br />I seriously doubt the modern British military would be able to pull of a caper like the Suez intervention in 1956! <br /><br />Sure they did it with the French but the British contribution was massive - 5 aircraft carriers with 15 fighter bomber squadrons (plus , 4 cruisers, 30+ frigate/destroyers and at least 5 submarines.<br /><br /><br />Even with the 2 new carriers, it would be unable to accomplish this as number of planned F-35s and escorts is too limited to be able accomplish all goals and there's key deficiencies in what is around (e.g. maritime patrol, antiship etc).<br /><br />Today the RN is incapable of independent ops of this scale and is basically now just a bolt-on for the USN or required to operate alongside other dwindling NATO navies. <br /><br />Number of hulls goes a long way. It means you can cover more area, have more flexibility, have greater ability to sustain losses (including mechanical ones etc etc). <br /><br />The Army and RAF aren't much better. The Army's 2020-2025 plans turn back the clock and make the Army a colonial enforcement force designed to send small groups (reinforced battalion or less) to colonial style wars with little emphasis on large scale deployments or conventional capability (look at the 1st division with its 7 "brigades" each of which varies in size and are pure infantry and often mounted in colonial equipment ala IMVs).<br /><br /><br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-33991685808778073692017-09-26T11:54:10.976+01:002017-09-26T11:54:10.976+01:00If you think you can train an infanteer to a usefu...If you think you can train an infanteer to a useful standard in 12 weeks you are on drugs. Hyperbole like that demeans this article<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-40092712252975589692017-09-20T10:53:40.758+01:002017-09-20T10:53:40.758+01:00In total agreement here Sir H
When this article c...In total agreement here Sir H<br /><br />When this article came into my contact circle I was quick to educate them that the 'rules of three' is pretty much universal for all navies and if ignored it does come with long term consequences like the USN having the Gulf carrier gap.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-76301823816979192182017-09-19T16:27:47.348+01:002017-09-19T16:27:47.348+01:00Good article. Whilst very inaccurate, the Telegra...Good article. Whilst very inaccurate, the Telegraph article is well timed and could be useful - especially as we bolster ourselves for another potential round of cuts!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13703518502202645856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-59873639402122009962017-09-19T10:02:09.414+01:002017-09-19T10:02:09.414+01:00I think it's more that a naval officer was &qu...I think it's more that a naval officer was "rude" to him (or rather didn't realise how important he thinks he is) on Corporate.Not a Boffinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-18405136895700984722017-09-18T13:00:51.197+01:002017-09-18T13:00:51.197+01:00Excellent article response Sir H
But I would add ...Excellent article response Sir H<br /><br />But I would add a word of caution on "save the RN" website, their biased rhetoric when it comes to the other services often suppose their otherwise well read informative articles, shame really.mikenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-29363195517616840942017-09-16T22:34:05.481+01:002017-09-16T22:34:05.481+01:00I've heard a rumour (which could be wrong) tha...I've heard a rumour (which could be wrong) that the Indian navy is very keen to work more closely with the RN. Even when they overtake us in size we could get on quite well. <br /><br />Eventually we will have to stop shrinking the navy as you can only cut so much before you completely lose core capabilities. So long as ship numbers increase (slightly), things might actually be looking up.....<br /><br /> Geoffrey S Hnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-28973082925357280802017-09-16T20:03:44.583+01:002017-09-16T20:03:44.583+01:00'if there have to be cuts let's scrap the ...'if there have to be cuts let's scrap the Navy to protect the Army and all the separate cap badges which they have been on since the end of Cold War and Northern Ireland operations.'<br /><br />Max Hastings is a prime suspect here as he is basically obsessed with the army as an institution and disregards the overall defence needs of the UK. We need to prioritise naval and air power (particularly the former) as the money is not there to do everything and we are not going to be involved in large-scale land operations for as far ahead as it is possible to see.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-11702079636657906272017-09-16T18:54:50.103+01:002017-09-16T18:54:50.103+01:00The Telegraph being the Telegraph is partly driven...The Telegraph being the Telegraph is partly driven by we are trying to sell to pensioners and they will lap up everything is rubbish and it was better when we were younger and partly if there have to be cuts let's scrap the Navy to protect the Army and all the separate cap badges which they have been on since the end of Cold War and Northern Ireland operations.<br /><br />There is a debate to be had about if we should spend more on the forces and if not what is the balance between the services this was just attack the RN and vaguely suggest everyone else is better. <br /><br />The USN is in a league of their own so park that.<br />France does have worldwide ex colonial commitments and is still a global force but like us smaller than the 1990's.<br />Netherlands has commitments in the Caribbean. <br />No one else in Europe commits to permanent out of area commitments though lots will commit a single ship to Op Atalanta for months. <br />Russia is still mainly dependant on a fleet from pre 1991 is regaining operational experience off Syria, but can probably put to sea 10% of what they could in the 1980's and what is left is OLD.<br />China and India are the new kids on the block, and comparison of shrinkage of U.K. And France since 1990 compared to growth in China India would be interesting, but would blow the mind of the average Telegraph reader who still thinks of the Raj and RN patrolling up the Yangtze Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05270416768188186705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-27066808141066719432017-09-16T18:25:47.018+01:002017-09-16T18:25:47.018+01:001945 is mentioned because that was a comparison in...1945 is mentioned because that was a comparison in the original Telegraph article, if the article had been about changes since 1997 or 2010 it would have had more credibility. But the average Telegraph hard copy reader is in their 70's and likes to pretend the world of 1945 was is coming back some day.<br /><br />Equally an regiment we have problems is one think, an argument ONLY the RN aha sproblems and everyone is laughing at us is just wrong.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05270416768188186705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-30649799355192906602017-09-16T17:06:18.276+01:002017-09-16T17:06:18.276+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.G..F.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03398763354728286102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-40903205899732032872017-09-16T17:05:37.360+01:002017-09-16T17:05:37.360+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.G..F.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03398763354728286102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-88124888775934357132017-09-16T17:05:36.867+01:002017-09-16T17:05:36.867+01:00Perhaps someone with a deeper insight into the sub...Perhaps someone with a deeper insight into the subject can throw some light onto how the rule of three fits with the submarine service, in particular Hunter killer boats? <br /><br />One would presume two for a single carrier group, leaving optimistically two to cover the rest of our commitments. <br />That doesn't seem like enough to cover the GIUK gap let alone other UK areas of interest. <br />This reduced fleet also would seem to put extra pressure on submariners and their time at home despite an already poor retention rate. <br />Coupled with the impending lock, stock move from the sunny south west to Scotland, for short term political gain but long term service pain, it doesn't seem to be a good time to be getting ones dolphins. <br />I agree, things are not as rosy as some suggest, we are leaning too much on the service's professionalism and can do attitude. G..F.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03398763354728286102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-61383852526637163722017-09-15T23:12:04.093+01:002017-09-15T23:12:04.093+01:00I'd say you've got rose tints on although ...I'd say you've got rose tints on although the Telegraph headline is misleading. <br /><br />"it is recruiting today for people who it needs to be senior rates in the early 2040s" <br /> Was this a typo. Even with a lead time from interviews, assessments and entry. 24 years from now most people joining shortly will have left. I'd suggest it should be achievable/desirable for your people to reach PO in half that time. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17175117608392139397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-48628912802393047212017-09-15T21:51:35.826+01:002017-09-15T21:51:35.826+01:00And the previous lot were so good, weren't the...And the previous lot were so good, weren't they? Escort ship numbers cut from 35 to 23 and attack submarines down from 12 to 7, Sea Harrier FA2s prematurely scrapped, Invincible decommissioned 7 years early, MARS support ship project shelved, minor war vessel and RFA numbers cut. In total, ~30 units gone 1998-2010, i.e. 2.5 per year!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-3160880100139248972017-09-15T21:40:52.517+01:002017-09-15T21:40:52.517+01:00Good post. I am heartily sick of the grinding nega...Good post. I am heartily sick of the grinding negativity in the media with regard to the UK armed forces in general and the RN in particular. Unfortunately, many will believe the misguided, ill-informed outpourings of the likes of Con Coughlin. I cancelled my DT subscription in 2015 as the standard of journalism (and indeed debate) was not worth £100 per year. A good decision I think.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-64096330150802019042017-09-15T19:55:12.495+01:002017-09-15T19:55:12.495+01:00The biggest French defeat was the 'Glorious Fi...The biggest French defeat was the 'Glorious First of June' A British tactical victory, French strategic victory (the grain convoy got through) but a French logistical disaster. They lost over 6000 prime seamen as prisoners. With a limited merchant marine to draw on, they couldn't man their navy with men of any professional quality, and it showed then and even after the peace of Amiens. Then as now, while it is possible to train an infantryman in twelve weeks, to get a useful sailor takes years. Hence the mess the RN is in. Great ships, but no SQEP (suitably quslified and expereineced personnel)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-11939332970904395232017-09-15T19:34:35.417+01:002017-09-15T19:34:35.417+01:00I understand it is a huge problem, I just worry th...I understand it is a huge problem, I just worry that costs from mistakes during procurement nonetheless add up. I would not want to belittle the manning crisis. If procurement could improve, then that's one less crisis to worry about, and more time to focus on manning. <br /><br />Indeed, manning problems are probably worse now than even during the 18th century- desertions from ships of the line generally averaged at 3% per year according to N Roger and and stopping coalers and other ships to impress men could temporarily plug gaps. France's manning problems were much worse and by Quiberon bay almost crippled their naval power. Having read the worries from serving men on Save the Royal Navy it does seem that the problem is now more acute, though I am prepared to be wrong on that- maybe it is just as acute as ever... <br />Geoffrey S Hnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-62631641189544753042017-09-15T18:47:23.596+01:002017-09-15T18:47:23.596+01:00I'm not doubting your sincerity for a second, ...I'm not doubting your sincerity for a second, and no apolgy is appropriate or required. However, the biggest problem the RN faces is people. When I joined at the front of the classroom was a pisture of a matelot in No1s captioned 'the greatest single factor'. S/he still is, far more than ships, fuel etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-2132776533375592412017-09-15T18:32:36.801+01:002017-09-15T18:32:36.801+01:00"The one area where the RN faces real challen..."The one area where the RN faces real challenge is that of keeping its people in the system in the right rank/rate, with the right experience and in sufficient numbers so as to balance time at sea with time on shore." <br /><br />I took that to mean that the other problem- the procurement crisis- was being rejected, and thus that the fears of Sir John Parker and the RUSI were therefore also rejected. I overthought his comments and am therefore wrong [as usual]. I apologise for dragging your name through the mud. <br /><br />And yes, I concede that the telegraph is actively trying to undermine the navy.... I don't yet understand how, but I will try. I just thought that wanting more ships meant they wanted the navy to be better- and were therefore proud of what it could be. <br /><br />And please, please understand that I am sincere in my apologies. It is incredibly tiring to be asserting one's sincerity after being honest about oneself and not being believed. I am a moron and I have caused a lot of trouble for people in the past. I regret that. I can't stop thinking and asking questions, even though the questions are usually the wrong ones.Geoffrey S Hnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-64830186433364292022017-09-15T16:28:57.024+01:002017-09-15T16:28:57.024+01:00Before I read the rest of your comment, I must sta...Before I read the rest of your comment, I must state very clearly that I was not being ironic. I was trying to honestly admit to my failings after almost a life time of trying to research things and constantly being wrong. I saw this article and I finally snapped. People like me are the reason Humph has to blog, and I am sorry for that. <br /><br />Please believe me when i say I am not being ironic. I absolutely regret what I have done. Geoffrey S Hnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-5957425067212527882017-09-15T16:12:27.976+01:002017-09-15T16:12:27.976+01:00Exchange rate is ONE of the reasons for the black ...Exchange rate is ONE of the reasons for the black hole but not the entire reason.Ron from Hawaiihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09951098170900489847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-80458841694335864282017-09-15T16:11:09.004+01:002017-09-15T16:11:09.004+01:00Compare to 2010 when this lot took over: services ...Compare to 2010 when this lot took over: services down by 30-40%.Ron from Hawaiihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09951098170900489847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-935704823896437782017-09-15T15:16:58.266+01:002017-09-15T15:16:58.266+01:00Just to highlight one thing: the pound has strengt...Just to highlight one thing: the pound has strengthened noticeably against the dollar & the trend is up. While, on 07/10/2016 it was $1.1711 to £1.00, today (15/09/2017) it was around $1.3587. Global investment & financial service group MUFG now forecasts the £ to be around $1.3870 during the first quarter of next year, $1.4420 during the second quarter, and $1.4651 during the third quarter. The rate, when the Brexit referendum polls closed, was $1.50. Exchange rates are incredibly volatile and projecting them into the future is risky even for experts, so these projections could be wrong, but, equally, the "budget hole" apparently created by the drop in the £ may simply not exist. Keith CampbellAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com