tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post6900491405121927446..comments2024-03-20T12:03:26.126+00:00Comments on Thin Pinstriped Line: The barbaric habits of the British Army todaySir Humphreyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08704774192275240783noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-63128687489097252552018-03-29T04:32:01.356+01:002018-03-29T04:32:01.356+01:00It is another knowledgeable role that makes me get...It is another knowledgeable role that makes me get to know a lot of things that will make me find exactly what it is.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><a href="https://www.gclub69.com/royal-hill-casino" rel="nofollow">Royal Hill</a> Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18016383418505517643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-83687235575416584012017-02-18T06:19:40.066+00:002017-02-18T06:19:40.066+00:00Thoughtful discussion , Apropos , others need to f...Thoughtful discussion , Apropos , others need to fill out a a form , my business partner filled out and faxed a template document here <a href="http://pdf.ac/7Y0eGk" rel="nofollow">http://pdf.ac/7Y0eGk</a>.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15410396075763389551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-2047384711117076412016-03-15T18:08:53.290+00:002016-03-15T18:08:53.290+00:00MY SONS DID NOT JOIN THE ARMY.AND I THOUGHT THE NE...MY SONS DID NOT JOIN THE ARMY.AND I THOUGHT THE NEW GENERATION HAS DIFFERENT IDEAS,jerryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03963559057043983003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-85722087734728548892014-03-14T21:51:35.557+00:002014-03-14T21:51:35.557+00:00Over the last few years? Try the last generation. ...Over the last few years? Try the last generation. The civilian workforce has declined year on year since before the end of the Cold War, with the exception of 2003, when I think the MOD took on a large number of locally employed staff in Iraq.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-79014111742777122942014-03-11T12:12:25.473+00:002014-03-11T12:12:25.473+00:00When I came ashore 45 years ago, the most difficul...When I came ashore 45 years ago, the most difficult habit to break was the universal custom of referring to my superiors by their first name. Even after 10 years as MD, I still called my Chairman, 'Sir', although he was 10 years younger and often insisted that I call him, 'Jim', or whatever.<br />Most of my contemporaries all to often reminisce about, 'how things used to be', although we are too wise not to realise that, to return to the old shibboleths, we would be condemned to relive those same years and remake all those same mistakes and misjudgements.<br />However, the General's comments were not made with the same sense of humorous railing against the failings of the youth of today. They were too constructed, detailed, organised and sharp. Hence the backlash of all the anonymous comments made here of late.<br />I, too, was subject to the class ridden nepotism and discriminatory attitudes that populated British industry and it's Victorian views of worth and value.<br />Thank God they are a lot less than they were, but beware traditions that mourn their past. Let's move on and create our own values and celebrate them.<br />Never go to reunions.Derek McBridenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-35368133776602621372014-03-10T21:21:21.572+00:002014-03-10T21:21:21.572+00:00Thanks Ianeon - very good point on Corps too.Thanks Ianeon - very good point on Corps too.Sir Humphreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08704774192275240783noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-62544238713219064102014-03-10T21:20:23.793+00:002014-03-10T21:20:23.793+00:00Who are these feather bedded civil servants you sp...Who are these feather bedded civil servants you speak of anonymous? I'd love to meet them given the attrition rate in the CS over the last few years.Sir Humphreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08704774192275240783noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-33558453967988839792014-03-10T14:32:18.886+00:002014-03-10T14:32:18.886+00:00Couldn't agree more. There is a senior leaders...Couldn't agree more. There is a senior leadership, some of it now retired, who essentially oversaw two catastrophic and pointless humiliations for the Army (first in Iraq and then in Afghanistan) which have cost the lives and limbs of hundreds of soldiers as well as exposed gross-incompetence both before and during said wars and yet they still get to keep their over-gonged snouts buried in the trough. <br /><br />We are now in a situation where the Army looks the least sustainable of the services in its current form and yet we have idiocy like this memo floating around. Its pathetic. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-46491200127125311182014-03-10T14:21:39.515+00:002014-03-10T14:21:39.515+00:00Newsflash, all careers are like that. Only feather...Newsflash, all careers are like that. Only feather-bedded civil servants actually struggle with the concept. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-17519301512200288762014-03-10T08:58:34.202+00:002014-03-10T08:58:34.202+00:00As a civilian with no experience of the forces, yo...As a civilian with no experience of the forces, you can appreciate I find this sort of thing bizarre and completely outdated. Personally if I was looking to join, it would out me off - you can understand that for people not used to such things, it comes across as little more than institutional bullying. <br /><br />I have to accept VKs assertion that mess behaviour actually does count to military effectiveness because he presumably has served. However I suspect that it means little when set against sheer combat power, resources, infrastructure, leadership, organisation, training, logistics etc. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-64531484409375493142014-03-09T21:46:37.593+00:002014-03-09T21:46:37.593+00:00"...a genuine sense of injustice and betrayal..."...a genuine sense of injustice and betrayal that the General Officer Class have of late not only failed to do their job by speaking truth to political power, but despite the dubious strategic value of these wars, came out of them with gongs and other kinds of career gain? ...this last decade or so of wars has revived a kind of 'lions and donkeys' tension. A similar theme is developed by Hew Strachan's recent writing on Generalship during this period. Essentially the charge against the present generation of senior officers is that they were corrupted. They put the rewards of career interest ahead of their professional standards while others paid the price."<br /><br />Absolutely - spot on.<br /><br />See http://j.mp/herrickinfo for a selection of articles highlighting just that view: the futility and selfishness of our ill-advised forays first in to TELIC, culminating in cowering in the Contingency Operating Base while bleeding out casualties for nothing, followed by jumping in feet first in to Helmand, desperate to justify the Army's existence. I sat in the task force HQ in 2006 watching contact reports come in, and seeing the body bags flown back some hours later, while reading plaintive reports of people completely outnumbered and overmatched by the Taliban. Throughout the campaign the metrics were always fictional nonsense: every six months, a brigade came back and it was tea and medals for senior personnel, and amputations and body bags for the more junior. Apparently the latter were an acceptable swap for the former.<br /><br />The *only* reasons for these cack-handed management of these wars long after it was clear that nothing was achievable in both theatres, were:<br /><br />1. Political obduracy at the highest levels, encouraged by an Army Board desperate to justify the service's size and continuing relevance post-Cold War, and;<br /><br />2. Senior officers slithering their way up the greasy pole on the body bags of more junior personnel, in the furtherance of their careers.<br /><br />The WIA and KIA that junior officers have experienced in their peer groups appears to have been regarded as 'acceptable collateral damage', or - more bluntly - an acceptable downpayment towards one's second or third star, for task force commanders, and everyone else on the gravy train. The Naval Review expressed it thus:<br /><br />"A Perfect Storm. …Abroad, we have been shoved over the side by the Iraqis and are busy turning Afghanistan into a modern Vietnam - complete with specious body counts and a woefully corrupt national government. (Afghanistan of course; who else did you think I meant?) Why are we there? The very sceptical view is that the Army has calculated the blood price that it is prepared to pay in return for the success of its project: to grow to a strength of 120,000 at the expense of both its sister services and a few hundred grieving and utterly confused relatives. If the UK ceases to espouse an expeditionary foreign policy, all the evidence points to a rather smaller standing army - and once which might be required to be rather more efficient…" (The Naval Review, Vol 97, No. 4, November 2009. pp337-339)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-59459414531546224092014-03-09T14:41:13.009+00:002014-03-09T14:41:13.009+00:00http://www.arrse.co.uk/community/threads/gen-cowan...http://www.arrse.co.uk/community/threads/gen-cowans-edict-a-reply.211041/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-51429038489844979612014-03-09T14:38:11.368+00:002014-03-09T14:38:11.368+00:00Personally I was struck by the angry subtext in th...Personally I was struck by the angry subtext in the response to the email in ARRSE. The lines about wounded officers not standing and missing fingers is I think not aimed narrowly at General Cowan, though his email provided an outlet. Can it be read as expressing a genuine sense of injustice and betrayal that the General Officer Class have of late not only failed to do their job by speaking truth to political power, but despite the dubious strategic value of these wars, came out of them with gongs and other kinds of career gain? All this stuff about wives, manners reflects a schism that is part generational, but also part class, and part political. But the most interesting part for me is the possibility that this last decade or so of wars has revived a kind of 'lions and donkeys' tension. A similar theme is developed by Hew Strachan's recent writing on Generalship during this period. Essentially the charge against the present generation of senior officers is that they were corrupted. They put the rewards of career interest ahead of their professional standards while others paid the price.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-88887565568134208792014-03-09T07:11:12.367+00:002014-03-09T07:11:12.367+00:00While the officers’ mess may not be the sole deter...While the officers’ mess may not be the sole determinant of operational performance of a Regiment, to discount it entirely would be equally blinkered.<br /><br />Beyond table manners, given the officers’ mess is also usually the repository of regimental traditions, and their transfer to succeeding generations of officers, I wonder how the decreasing relevance of the mess is impacting that. More so when regimental tradition is often the difference between a sharp, cohesive unit and a 9-to-5 one, especially for armies that are anchored by the 'Regiment'.<br /><br />Striking the right balance is critical to extracting the best of what the institution has to offer and ensuring it’s continued relevance rather than getting rid of the tub, baby and all, as tokenism to keeping up with the times.<br /><br />Certainly plenty to think about the future of the profession of arms, besides the mechanics of the poor mode of delivery employed (though that’s an aspect that’s very often overlooked)…VKnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-48943777080659937552014-03-08T22:23:21.124+00:002014-03-08T22:23:21.124+00:00Christ almighty but sorry, if your digs and where ...Christ almighty but sorry, if your digs and where you go on the piss effects how well you perform on operations and how well the Army performs on operations then we live in a very ludicrous world. Tea and Taste and drinking from the Imperial Guards chamber pot does not a good Army make.<br /><br />PhilAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-51965707294169389652014-03-08T21:08:14.544+00:002014-03-08T21:08:14.544+00:00Sorry SH I think you've written a less than st...Sorry SH I think you've written a less than stellar piece here. What the main meat of the post boils down to is a half mad officer writes email, people interpret it in different ways and it's somehow a PR disaster? That is over egging the pudding by a considerable margin. Whilst I wasn't about in the 80s as an adult, just watching some of the programmes on the iPlayer showing the messes in the 80s and 90s tells me that things have changed for the better. So yes the Army has changed, yes the mess has changed and so has Army life for Officers and ORs, but hardly a bad thing. <br /><br />PhilAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-77259023523809575482014-03-08T16:50:03.273+00:002014-03-08T16:50:03.273+00:00It is a little harder to look at the Army as a cal...It is a little harder to look at the Army as a calling when one could be made redundant with a stroke of the pen. This turns a potential lifelong career into a "job". His comments also sound like the Army is transforming more into the US Army model with more damage to the Regimental system.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com