tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post6746597811490829188..comments2024-03-20T12:03:26.126+00:00Comments on Thin Pinstriped Line: Sinking without trace? The future of Military Shipbuilding in an independent ScotlandSir Humphreyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08704774192275240783noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-74623226242908530542013-08-10T15:43:55.739+01:002013-08-10T15:43:55.739+01:00So sad really. I was born in Fareham/Portsmouth bu...So sad really. I was born in Fareham/Portsmouth but my ancestors were more likely to of been on the winning side at Bannockburn. It's all so pathetic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-42620804953350396252013-08-10T15:37:00.294+01:002013-08-10T15:37:00.294+01:00Barrow is bigger, Cammell Laird is bigger than any...Barrow is bigger, Cammell Laird is bigger than any Clyde shipyard, A&P has more potential too. I think this whole debate over the breakup of my Country is horrendous anyway. Final assembly could of taken place anywhere wityh a large drydock. Swan Hunters closed, only to be replaced by a facility at Rosyth.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-38277997108556165602013-04-29T17:46:41.790+01:002013-04-29T17:46:41.790+01:00Having worked with BAe Systems, it is my understan...Having worked with BAe Systems, it is my understanding that they need to build ships in the Clyde shipyards as the shipyards in England aren't large enough to handle the construction and final assembly of the larger vessels ordered by the RN. For this reason, BAE systems is likely to continue using its Clyde shipyards regardless of a YES vote for Independence.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-62033871016937822652012-05-30T22:37:49.439+01:002012-05-30T22:37:49.439+01:00Ajay - I can assure that I'm very definitely n...Ajay - I can assure that I'm very definitely not insane!<br />My instinct is that a referendum in 2014 will not see the union collapsing on the spot, but rather it would lead to a period of negotiation ahead of any split.<br />In terms of timing, this means that Scottish yards will only have the QEC work as the T26 won't be in build at this point. So, from an RN perspective, it would be easy to shift production at this stage down south to the new UK yards. From a BAE perspective, they are unlikely to complain loudly where production is shifted to, providing it continues. <br />I think it would be hugely unlikely that any further orders would be placed with a Scottish yard, and Ministers have said as much. The only question is what happens to CVFs under construction. <br />A wider question is what happens to the large fleet of decomissioned SSNs / SSBNs parked in Rosyth, as Devonport has no room. These will potentially be a bargaining chip for both sides for very different reasons.Sir Humphreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08704774192275240783noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-44346737551183663362012-05-30T11:41:08.462+01:002012-05-30T11:41:08.462+01:00The Terms of Business Agreement is not between Wes...The Terms of Business Agreement is not between Westminster and Scotland; it's between the UK Government and various defence companies. Scotland's independence won't alter who owns the shipyards. No doubt, for the reasons you give, Westminster will want to renegotiate it post independence to make sure that future work stays south of the border. But cancel the agreement unilaterally without compensation? You really think that would happen? I mean, Sir Humphrey does, but I think he's insane. <br /><br /><br />And I thought that this was rather comic. I'm assuming here that you're very, very young:<br />"Which Westminster Government is going to close down Portsmouth so that jobs can be saved in a foreign country? Ain't going to happen"<br /><br />A Conservative government shutting down a national industry and sending the work overseas? It's unthinkable. Next you'll be saying they'd close the coal mines!ajaynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-68958919288559602302012-05-23T20:50:08.577+01:002012-05-23T20:50:08.577+01:00"You are apparently assuming that the TOBA wo..."You are apparently assuming that the TOBA would simply be annulled without compensation."<br /><br />If Scotland went independent then it would have no more claim on the Westminster Government than, say, the USA. The RN has never in modern times put a shipbuilding contract out to a yard in the USA. Why should they to a yard in Scotland? Which Westminster Government is going to close down Portsmouth so that jobs can be saved in a foreign country? Ain't going to happen, unless there is a big trade off somewhere else. Hence my comment about Faslane. However, any current agreement with BAe about future builds/work on the Clyde and or Rosyth won't be worth a the paper they are written on. If Scotland goes for independence.HurstLlamahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01086351645473769872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-17461091733221056652012-05-21T17:01:04.402+01:002012-05-21T17:01:04.402+01:00work on the T45s comes to a conclusion, and presum...<i>work on the T45s comes to a conclusion, and presumably work on CVF is halted after independence.</i><br /><br />Wait, what? You're suggesting that if Scotland votes for independence in 2014, the English government would not only not send any future contracts north of the border, but would pull the plug on CVF out of pique? That's a pretty odd forecast to make. Apart from anything else, the English would presumably hit huge contract problems with BAE Systems. <br /><br />On the more general point, the question of the persistence of the Terms of Business Agreement post-separation would presumably have to be settled in the independence negotiations, just like every other contract between the UK government and a third party. You are apparently assuming that the TOBA would simply be annulled without compensation. This assumption is not well supported.ajaynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-41393085124576011082012-05-20T19:10:37.059+01:002012-05-20T19:10:37.059+01:00Current polls suggest that we're not intereste...Current polls suggest that we're not interested in independence. The SNP just don't seem to 'get' that a vote for them is in most cases not a vote for independence.<br /><br />However why do you think they want the referendum in 2014 and not next year, or in fact sometime this year (I'm pretty sure the CS could set it up to be held in six months time)? They want more time to try and persuade us of the merits and have it in a year when we host the Commonwealth Games and there is the anniversary of Banockburn.<br /><br />My message to Wee Eck would be if independence is so great why not give us Scots a chance to vote on it ASAP?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-89620938332766741512012-05-19T22:23:23.662+01:002012-05-19T22:23:23.662+01:00If, and I think its a very big if, the Scots vote ...If, and I think its a very big if, the Scots vote for independence in 2014 would they really be given a couple of frigates from the RN? Would they want them? Could they crew them? Would the RN be allowed to order replacements? If they are to receive ships on a per-capita basis, should they not also be given a SSN, if they want one (doubtful given the SNP's anti-nuclear stance)? <br /><br />I would think that should it actually come to negotiations the SNP will use Faslane as a bargaining chip to try and get what they want, which might include continuing RN orders for their ship yards.HurstLlamahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01086351645473769872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-2276815414810378662012-05-19T18:07:46.906+01:002012-05-19T18:07:46.906+01:00The SNP isn't really interested in defence, so...The SNP isn't really interested in defence, so I doubt it would really care if we lost the military shipbuilding capability, other than perhaps they might lose votes in places like Govan and Scotstoun. I'm also not really convinced that they think they'll win the 2014 (or whenever) referendum, despite having the CS in Scotland going through the motions of planning for what an Independent Scotland would look like in many areas.<br /><br />From what I can see the export market for warships is already saturated, the Rump UK would be unlikely to order warships in a foreign country and the SDF would be underfunded to such a degree that I doubt it would have much more than a few patrol craft. In that case there would be very little for our shipyards to actually do.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com