tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post4159827252756703475..comments2024-03-20T12:03:26.126+00:00Comments on Thin Pinstriped Line: "Up to Four Tankers" - The RFA and the quiet death of British Maritime StrategySir Humphreyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08704774192275240783noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-1834860425968787922012-01-29T11:09:06.901+00:002012-01-29T11:09:06.901+00:00The RN could do with a pair of smaller tanker/repl...The RN could do with a pair of smaller tanker/replenishment vessels to replace the Rovers. To support small deployments of one or two frigates/destroyers. The rovers were slightly too small. The replacements would need to be slightly bigger.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-41432852579156563042012-01-28T22:55:55.592+00:002012-01-28T22:55:55.592+00:00In a less pessimistic view, they use the words &qu...In a less pessimistic view, they use the words "up to", because at least since 2008 it is expected, for what i know, that the MARS FT order would happen on a 2 + 1 + 1 fashion, with a first batch of 2 tankers to be delivered immediately and two further batches of one each later. <br /><br />One of the late tankers might end up being a larger vessel that replaces Fort Victoria in the carrier-support role. <br /><br />And very good deals are still possible, judging from the deal the Indians got with Italy's Finmeccanica for the Deepak vessel in 2010. <br /><br />I share the concerns about MARS, and i very much hope that all four tankers are acquired. But i'd like to think that you are being excessively pessimist for once. <br />If you are willing to accept that the Navy senior officers are responsible for pushing to the right MARS FT in these last few years of total financial nightmare, you should also accept at least the possibility that now, with greater nominal control over their share of the budget, navy top brass will try and fund the needed tankers. They are very much aware of what they need, but i guess they really couldn't fit MARS into the budgets of the last few years without very bad effects on other parts of the fleet.Gabrielehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01623558391676151582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-18828017549790503512012-01-27T10:17:12.029+00:002012-01-27T10:17:12.029+00:00That was pretty much what I meant :)
I also like ...That was pretty much what I meant :)<br /><br />I also like the idea of anti piracy / drug patrols being RN officers and local rates, on a ship built and paid for by the UK, but with operating costs met by the local power.<br /><br />A big clyde with a pop gun on the front, 5 RN officers and 50 Kenyan ratings.TrTnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-7027593698724906352012-01-27T05:06:42.627+00:002012-01-27T05:06:42.627+00:00Another good piece, Sir Humphrey!
RE "three,...Another good piece, Sir Humphrey!<br /><br />RE "three, or possibly only two tankers are a likely buy, then it means the end of the Royal Navy's ability to operate globally as an independent force."<br />- in fact, I would welcome such a revisit to the assumptions and goal setting. With the emphasis on the word "independent" in this context<br />- such independent operations should go no further West than the Falklands and no further East than Diego Garcia. If we don't have friendly ports or co-operating navies, what on earth are we doing there, further out? <br />- the narco patrol by a warfighting frigate is ridiculous; why not subsidise local ship purchaces (too late, Brazil bought them)of smaller, better suited vessels (from British yards only, tied aid is rational if there is a shared purpose) and second officers and specialist to make sure the mission can be fulfilled? Anyway, this is a very small issue on the fringes as the USCG probably equals the RN, or at least soon will if we can't find a better (more focussed) mission statement<br /><br />Visiting from TD, cheers. ACCAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-56348897757060731672012-01-26T11:02:34.312+00:002012-01-26T11:02:34.312+00:00As I said, its not ideal, but we have enough tanke...As I said, its not ideal, but we have enough tankers for a "proper" war.<br /><br />At the end of the day, the East Indies Fleet is a lone frigate anyway, I dont we maintain "cover" if we add support from a Tanker.<br /><br />Shouldnt be impossible to organise refueling and restocking in Kenya, Oman, BIOT, Singapore and Australia.<br /><br />Not ideal, makes a none nuclear carrier look even stupider, but I think it can be worked around.TrTnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-44783668675777021542012-01-25T23:39:38.560+00:002012-01-25T23:39:38.560+00:00TrT - the issue for the RN is the ability to maint...TrT - the issue for the RN is the ability to maintain operations indefinitely with its escorts and carriers. Putting into a harbour takes time, and increases the requirement for surface ships, to ensure cover can be maintained. A tanker makes life much simpler for everyone.<br />Also, there are legal constraints (particularly during operations) about where some warships can berth, which the RFA does not have due to the status of its crew as merchant seaman. Port access can never be 100% certain, no matter how much we want it to be.<br /><br />Additionally, RFA ships carry water, aviation fuel and a variety of other stores - they are essentially floating Tesco stores, and we again can't be certain every port will have these assets.Sir Humphreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08704774192275240783noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-64578228413150847782012-01-25T18:30:40.213+00:002012-01-25T18:30:40.213+00:00In any sort of intensive operation replenishment m...In any sort of intensive operation replenishment may need to be carried out every few DAYS. That and passage time to the hypothetical port ( & remember USS Cole?) make the idea of cutting RFA support risible. Also, there is another sort of fuel called FOOD that has to be taken into account, and ops may require re-supply of ammunition in large quantities also, and that CANNOT be had in foreign ports.<br /><br />The truth is that as the number of ships reduces more and more, there is more rather than less dependence on the RFAs as we spread the butter ever thinner on the bread, so that each warship can be re-deployed or re-poised at less and less notice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-39121170899012525572012-01-25T15:06:09.322+00:002012-01-25T15:06:09.322+00:00I understand, and in a way, agree with your point,...I understand, and in a way, agree with your point, but I think the thinking behind it is weak.<br /><br />Personaly I dont agree that the UK should maintain its "Distributed Navy" in any event.<br /><br />But, if we intend to keep up all this "defence diplomacy" nonesense, what better way than for our frigates to dock and refuel/resupply themselves every 30/60 days in these nations we are trying to influence? <br /><br />The RFA was formed to supply the RN with coal where there was no coal. Where in the world today lacks a port that can supply diesel to a 130m ship? Theres bigger pleasure yachts.<br /><br />All we really *need* tankers and stores ships for, is times when we cant dock because we are at war.<br /><br />Given the Royal Navy would be limited to a single theatre in the event of a war, surely our tankers should reflect that?<br /><br />Or perhaps not?TrTnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6254362504495980377.post-76951975150538383722012-01-25T08:10:35.101+00:002012-01-25T08:10:35.101+00:00"Its operating a tanker fleet where most ship..."Its operating a tanker fleet where most ships are probably older than most of their crew"<br /><br />You haven't met an RFA crew! Average age is around 40. Rovers were launched in '73.<br /><br />Otherwise good article. Note that even with existing assets (even prior to SDSR cuts) replenishment tanker coverage on APT(N), APT(S), AGRT and FOST has at times been gapped.Anixtunoreply@blogger.com